Welcome to two guys, one book. I am Brian joined as always with Tim Tim, of course, and this week's book is Calypso by David Sedaris. It's my pick. Why did you pick it Brian? Why did I pick it? Well, I felt like we needed a change of pace. We've been reading all these downers. We got Virginia Woolf and then we got a cancer book and then book about Russia, you know spoiling the election. So like we just need something different and David Sedaris is an author I had known about for a while, and I've seen him talk numerous times and think he's entertaining guy, not seeing him in person. So yeah. Yeah not seen him in person. But seeing him on like TV interviews that kind of thing think he's a funny guy. He's got a bunch of books out there and they're just kind of anecdotal stories about his life and his family and I just picked this most recent one. Have you read anything by him before? I have not. No, so I didn't know quite what to expect but I kind of figured I just knew he. He read I've seen him read excerpts from his book in there always normally centered around his life. So I kind of knew it was doable in that sense, but I liked it. I enjoyed it. I thought I was a easy read a fun read it's broken down into 21 different chapters about any and each chapter has its own theme or Vibe, but he talks about. A lot of different things throughout the book that kind of our repair come up throughout all the stories. So were you surprised by anything when you read this or is it kind of what you expected? Um, I don't know. I guess I didn't really have that specific of expectations. So it didn't really exceed or fail in that regard. I enjoyed it and I felt like it was seems like a very personal book. He goes into depth about his sister suicide and then his mother how his mother died in her 60s or something when the kids were just becoming adults so they had a big impact on the family and it seems like their mother might have been an alcohol. Well was an alcoholic so, you know talking about that stuff made it, you know, intriguing and and engaging but I felt like there were sometimes I just laughed out loud. I mean like I'm not usually one to do that when I'm reading people will say, you know, a certain book is funny or what not and when I read it I may not laugh out loud at me like it. I may still like there's not many very rarely do books make me laugh out loud. And this one did it because I really enjoy David Sedaris. I think he's a funny guy. Yeah, so well, what did you think I love this book? Oh, yeah, I'm glad you picked it. Yeah good. We did need a change of pace for sure and you were thinking of a book of his to choose and then I was also listening to like the fresh air. He did her interview recently promoted the book and you heard about it too and you were like, why don't we just do this newest? And you know how I feel about newer books. Like if it's new it must not be good. Let's read these classic but it's not the case. This is new and it's great and I Tried reading a David Sedaris book a while ago and I couldn't really get into it. I think I was in like early college or something and it probably depends at where you at where you're at in your life. How at what extent you appreciate it or it can relate to what. I'm talking about but the way he like weaves together sad things and funny things. I think it's just super well done. Mmm Yeah, I think it's well written and it just and I and having seen him read excerpts from his past books. It's like I can almost picture him reading it. Did you get the audio book for that it book? Yeah, that's great because it was a him reading. It was him reading it. Okay, well good and a couple of the stories were actually in front of a live audience. So you get you got their reactions like in real time eyes. It's really funny. Yeah. So yeah. Did you have a favorite little story? Let's see. I mean I had to review because like you said there were so many things that he kind of weaves in. In and out throughout all his stories that I had to go back and then be like, oh which one was you know, I don't know if a specific story stands out. It's more like little moments inside each of the stories. But what about you? Did you have a favorite? I just going down the list here. I liked his Stepping Out which was his him being a slave does Fitbit and like going and picking up garbage along the English Countryside roads where they lived. I liked Calypso where they cut out the tumor from his body and and to feed it to a turtle is pretty weird. Yeah, that was weird and then Untamed. Which was about they had a fox in their backyard named they named it Carol and I thought that was kind of cool intersection of nature. I like I think foxes are cool just in general. So I like I kind of wish I could have a pet fox. I guess this is why I like that one. Yeah, and I think the one and then I think my favorite one was probably and while you're up there check my prostate. Which is a about him the David Sedaris does not drive. He never got a driver's license and so he but he was fascinated with like road rage and how other drivers yell at each other and their own car, you know, and he's like, so he when he's travels abroad he was getting. The Bunga the bulgarians and the hungarians like their versions of what do you say in your car to swear somebody out on the road and I thought I have a few quotes from that that I think that was pretty good. Yeah, but yeah, like you said there's a lot of little things was it. Is there any particular moment stick out to you? So I just loved how he wrote about like his the Dynamics with his family and with Hugh his long-term lover. So. Who is your favorite like what was your favorite relationship to hear about because he talked about like him and his dad a lot. Yeah, him and Hugh, his sister's. Yeah, he comes from a family of six. Right? Right. Well, yeah that and but now we are five, right? Yeah, because which I thought was an interesting chapter about his sister’s suicide. Um, I guess I kind of liked his relationship with his siblings. And because he talks about how over time you can develop different dynamics with different siblings throughout your life and I have found that to be true and kind of in very interesting because I have two older siblings and how we have grown up into adulthood. It's my relationship has evolved with both of them. Especially the older one who's significantly older any like eight years apart is a big difference when you're 10 and 18 but like when you're in adults, it's not that big a deal and it's just nice to have an adult relationship with both my siblings. And so that I think is the one I his relationship with his siblings. I enjoyed. What did you think about his family life? Like when they were younger like when they were all little kids? Well, I mean I did that didn't really stick out to me a whole lot. Do you remember just it's a that bits and pieces like he was talking about how his dad would kind of just hang out and watch TV or something. But like they all kind of competed for their mom's attention and she was a really good Storyteller. So you kind of got the sense that he developed that skill. Just kind of being around her growing up. True. Yeah. I yeah now that you mentioned that I do remember that. I did read the book. but no. Yeah, I mean that and I think that's that was an interesting point because. He I feel like he definitely got a storytelling skills from his mom and it seemed like he was much closer to his mom and his dad when he was younger. Yeah, a lot of my favorite Parts in the book were parts of this Dad where it's like they don't really know how to communicate with each other. But whether it's like through music or just being together at the house, they find a way to get along, you know, his dad's kind of like a far-right Republican and he's super liberal. They just Clash a lot. But as long as they don't talk too much, they okay with each other right? Right and him and his sister Amy. They seem like they're pretty similar and get along well and she's in some stuff. I've Seen Her Like She's the voice of someone on BoJack Horseman. Oh, yeah. I know you don't watch that show. She was in like she was like the lead in Strangers With Candy back in the day. Really? Yeah the lead. Yeah. She was candy she was. That was Ellen Page wasn't it? I think it is like hard candy. Yeah, one thing of Strangers With Candy. I would have been surprised if you would really remember that one that was like an obscure show on Comedy Central. I don't it was about high school and Stephen Colbert was actually on it. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so yeah, Steve and Amy Sedaris, I think both like work together a lot in the early years. Yeah, but I kind of like yeah Amy Sedaris is in a bunch of other stuff too. Oh, she's in Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. Is she? Yeah. She's the crazy friend of Jaclyn who's like, yeah Super Rich. Yeah and like and like just. Starved for attention. Okay. She's kind of like she's a minor character, but she has funny scenes things. She plays like an amplified version of herself, perhaps. I don't know her personally, Tim. Yeah, but like through David's stories and sounds like she's a little quirky. Yeah over the top too. It sounds like they eat. Every one of the Sedaris family is a little quirky in their own. Well, it's to me it felt like a Wes Anderson movie come to life. Yeah, you know, like they've all got their flaws and like quirky Parts, but somehow they get along. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. Yeah. Was there anything you didn't like about the book per se. If I had to say maybe towards the end some of the stories kind of would run together a been. Like I loved it overall and but. Thinking back. It's a little hard to distinguish that story from the other one because to me they all felt pretty similar. Right? So I think by the end you you know, you have a good grasp of all the things he's talking about like the beach house and the turtle and and his relationship with his dad and Hugh and stuff. It's like, I mean it there are themes throughout the whole book that that I think going into it when you're starting. The rest of the chapter keep makes it more unique but then towards the end. It's kind of everything kind of gets blended together, which is fine. That's why even though it's not a long book. I kind of took a while to read because I would just read like one story before bed or something. I think it's better to break it up instead of binge read this one so you can kind of appreciate it in doses. I agree and I actually read it the opposite way. I've been binged it. I was flying so I just. Was able to zip through a pretty good and I was on vacation to so I just read one after the other because like I just like them so much but I think your way was a little better to absorb each one and just enjoy it and then you know like you don't need to burn through it, right? Yeah. So you were laughing on the airplane and people are looking over I was thankfully thankfully Megan was beside me so she could you know, it wasn't like it wasn't a stranger. Speaking of that. I just want to read one quote real quick. Yeah, because it's relevant so Hugh his long-term partner. Said he would like read his manuscripts and stuff. And so he said Hugh who is good at spotting typos and used to do so for his father a novelist, was reading the manuscript for the first time whenever I heard him laugh, I'd ask what's so funny should 5 or 10 minutes passed with no reaction. I'd call out. Why aren't you laughing? That's hilarious? Yeah, obviously, I mean, I think David Sedaris recognizes that he is a unique individual and with his own quirks, and I think he. You know. Should displays them in all their glory and I think that's the way it should be. You know, like we're all human we're all flawed and but yeah, he's pretty open about he’ll you know be pretty up front with some of his shortcomings and be self-deprecating about it. But the way he describes Hugh was pretty funny because they do seem opposite and a lot of you don't think he's really proper and kind of just as manners and things like that. But yeah, it's funny. Yeah, I like I think I thought they had a big they seem to have a good relationship. I don't you see like I don't I having not read them before. I don't know if I mean, I'm sure Hugh pops up in his other books as well because he's been writing for so long, but I'm probably there's probably a time before you that he started writing. I would think. I don't know but it doesn't makes me want to go back and read him more. Yeah, I'm curious how similar in different his other books are. I'm sure it's a lot more family stuff and but maybe some focus more on his like relationship with Hugh or some focus on his relationship with Amy or whoever. To me this one felt like it felt like he was traveling a lot and he had some good stories from on the road and then he would go to the beach house and his home in England it seemed like. When he’s talking about Hugh, he was talking about a lot in their home in England, but then the beach house in North Carolina was where their whole family would congregate and then he would talk about his dad and his siblings and all that stuff. And in fact Emerald Isle is where they have the beach house. My family has vacationed there twice. Really? Yeah. Well not like it. I mean, I think I vacationed there when I was like, 8 and 14 or something like that. I don't know. That's his ballpark guessing but it was fun. I liked it. Yeah, we gotta be I mean, I mean he was like when he was describing all the houses all lined up on the beach with you know, their kitschy, you know, beach-themed interiors. That's exactly what it's like and all of them have names that are kind of corny. But by the way, can we talk about his house name on when he buys the beach house he names The Sea Section which I thought was awesome, but as he is, yeah so out of those pretty good. He likes to amuse himself a lot which is it. Yeah. Oh, yeah, very it does a lot of puns. But my favorite part of that chapter, I won't go crazy with the quotes but there's just one more. That's what we could we could just start doing quotes. Yeah. Is about the beach house again, so I said I told myself when I was young that one day, I would buy a beach house and that it would be everyone's as long as they followed my Draconian rules and never stop thanking me for it. Yeah, that's good. That sounds like something you would say. Yeah, this is this house is for everyone but you have to do exactly what I say. Yeah, never stop thanking me. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I like this book. I thought it was, you know, entertaining and funny and like you said, it was a good blend of the funny with the sad. Because he would talk about you know, his mother's alcoholism and but then like tell funny stories about her as at the same time and but I feel like that's kind of like a good attitude to have towards life is you know, it's not always going to be warm and fuzzy and happy but and in sad times it's okay to crack jokes, you know. Life sucks at times, but there's no need to be serious all the time either. So like I feel like that it feels like he and his family. Have a good. Kind of like attitude about life. It's how I would say. Yeah, it seems like his writing is a way to process all of the stuff going on in his life to yeah, and she'll like I feel like it's a good book but like it maybe doesn't stimulate them the deepest of conversations, you know. I mean it. Talk about relations. We can talking about shopping clothes shopping in Japan because there was a chapter about that which I thought was kind of interesting, but I know like I think you know, Yeah, well what you said about the sad parts having more weight or something. I think I have a really good quote on that. So yeah, yeah, okay. And I'll edit all this shit out too and I find when I'm shopping to it's only two pages. I don't go too crazy. No, that's fine. I think. Okay. Yeah, this is it. I highlighted it too okay, so and I think in the chapter like just to give some context he was talking to Hugh about like how he's saying. He's always negative. Mmm, David. So he says is it my fault that the good times Fade to nothing while the bad ones burn forever bright memory aside the negative just makes for a better story. The plane was delayed, an infection set in, outlaws arrived and reduce the schoolhouse to ashes. Happiness is harder to put into words. It's also harder to source much more mysterious than anger or sorrow, which come to me promptly whenever I summon them and remain long after I begged them to leave. Yeah, that's a good quote. That's pretty good because it's so true too because like the negative aspects of Life do stick with us more and he also said that the happy happiness is harder to Source. I think that's true too. Because like we we can have a perfectly good day and we feel happy but like we're not sure really what the made it a good day. Some days are just I don't know, you know, like a unless you're actually going to an event or. You'll having something major in your life happen, you know like yesterday. I had a good day and I just want to work and went rock climbing and so nice and some new hobby. You're like, yeah, so I mean that was a great day. But like so like I guess I could Source it like going rock climbing made it a good day, but work made it a good day too. So like I don't know. I'm rambling. But like every story requires conflict though for it to be captivating. I think like if everything we watch on TV or read in a book was just like they were happy and nothing bad or stood out that they like overcome then it’d be boring. Yeah, right. Well, I think we I think we just hammer out quotes because I think they'll generate a lot of discussion yesterday. Like well, first of all, like one of the first parts of the book that made me laugh out loud was was this opening chapter? Yes. My hair is gray and thinning. Yes, the washer on my penis has worn out leaving me to dribble urine long after I've zipped my trousers back up. But I have two guest rooms. I once I read that in the first chapter, I was like, all right. It's like I mean cuz he's getting older in age. I mean, he doesn't he talks about where he is in his life and just I can already tell you're going to choose the more vulgar quick and graphic. Yes but then also like that same chapter. He talks about having guest rooms. That means people can come over and visit which is. But then he also finds that he just kind of hides in his Studio office a lot of times when he does have company just to kind of get away or sometimes just the act like aloof person and then he comes back in like in the middle of conversations and I that's one thing I love. I love like eavesdropping on random people and just hearing little stiff stupid just hearing little bits of their conversation and being like what on Earth because like. And so that's what he's talking about. And then here's the quote: That often happens with company. I'll forever wonder what a guest from Paris meant when I walked into the yard one evening and heard her saying many goats, my might be nice or otter still when he was father Sam came to visit with an old friend he known from the state department. The two had been discussing the time they spent in Cameroon in the late 60s, and I enter the kitchen to hear Mr. Hamrick say. Now was that guy a pygmy or just a false pygmy? I turned around and headed to my office thinking I'll ask later. Yeah, just the way he liked recounts those things is so funny. Yeah. Yeah, but what you were saying about like visitors and stuff reminded me to of that. I think this is at the end of that chapter. He says when visitors leave, I feel like an actor watching the audience file out of the theater and it was no different with my sisters. The show over Hugh and I returned to lesser versions of ourselves. We're not a horrible couple. We have our share of fights the type that can start with a misplaced sock and suddenly be about everything. I haven't liked you since 2002. He hissed during a recent argument over which airport security line was moving the fastest. That's a good one. I laughed out loud when I read that. It makes you wonder what happened in 2002. That was like his next line. Yeah. Yeah, and I think just the way he picks up on. like he's a good observer of human nature and. You know our Tendencies or whatever, you know, like he's fascinated. He like would say crazy things to get a rise out of people at book signings or whatever. He would like guess their sign or something and sometimes they could be right and they'll be like, oh my goodness. How do you know, you know and like, but they didn't they didn't know that the 10 other times he guessed it was wrong, you know, and and he just I just. I admire that because I could never do that. You know, I'm the could never be won to say stuff to strangers just to get a reaction out of them and he's like who cares it's a stranger. You'll never see him again and you're probably and you're right. But but then this then this talking about families are yeah, so just the way hold on. I'll just read my quote that so he talked about his family. This is from the chapter now we are five. Take those kids double them and subtract the cable TV. That's what my parents had to deal with now though there weren't six only five and you can't really say they're used to be six. I told my sister Lisa. It just makes people uncomfortable. I recalled a father and son I'd met in California a few years back. So are there other children I asked. There are the man said three who are living and a daughter Chloe who died before she was born 18 years ago. That's not fair. I remember thinking because I mean what's a person supposed to do with that? You know, like he's so true. I mean he's so dead on like you can't I mean people do bring up stuff like that in casual conversation, but what's the other person supposed to do like? Oh, I'm so sorry that 18 years ago, you know you suffered through that but like. Well, he has so he's pretty blunt. And able to get away with saying these things that we can't and like every day. I'm ready. It's almost like a Larry David - yeah, but yeah, I think with like he'll get bored during book signings and stuff. That's why he has to start guessing people’s signs and just kind of yeah, that's what he said. He and there wasn't one thing. He's one of his stories. He and Hugh were traveling. In Hawaii on vacation and he had to sign a bunch of inserts or something or they were just blank pieces of paper. But what they would do is they would insert them into the book as it was being printed. Which I never thought of before like I thought like some the author would if this if you get a signed copy of a book I would I always thought that the author actually signed the book but he was just signing pieces of paper that then got inserted into the book. Which I thought was interesting. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I mean that's something I would have never thought of but I'm sure after you sign your name like he had a sign it like 5,000 times or something crazy. Yeah. Oh really old. Yeah. Who's turn to do quote? I got one. Okay, he was talking about how Jesus is always portrayed as this handsome white, you know, ripped person in all art ever. This is the quote. What would happen I often wonder if someone sculpted a morbidly obese Jesus with titties and acne scars and hair on his back. On top of that, he should be short five foot two at the most sacrilege people would shout but why? Doing good deeds doesn't make you good looking. Take Jimmy Carter, Habitat for Humanity's and do a thing for those tombstone sized teeth of his. That was pretty harsh. Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, you can say you can get away with saying they said oh, yeah, but like I feel like he he says. Things on his vet I think. People think about like but we know it's not polite to say, you know, I don't think he he is politically politically correct at all, David Sedaris, and I think that's a good thing because I think that makes his writing more interesting. I wish like when you see him perform live people are like read his stories. Because it sounds like people are really it's really engaging show like people laugh and cry and he's telling us stories and I'll say things Off the Cuffs as well really well and it almost seems like a return back to like, you know an earlier time when people just go around like orator or yeah, like how many people really do that? Like, yeah, I'm like musicians and stand-up comedians. But like, you know, a lot of people just going around telling stories right right now, that's true. I think that's. Pretty cool that he can do that. Yeah. I like to see him. He's on tour this year already tried to get yeah. Okay not all right here now around here, huh speaking of religion though. This one was funny. So he's in North Carolina a lot. Right? That's where his beach house is. So that's where you grew up to. That's right. Yeah. That's where his Dad lives there. Yeah, so he says. Increasingly at Southern airports instead of a goodbye or thank you cashiers are apt to say have a blessed day. This can make you feel like you've been sprayed against your will with God cologne. Get it off me. I always want to scream quick before I start wearing ties with short sleeve shirts. That was a good one: yeah. I have one more quick one to follow up on that sure he says because he flies a lot around talks. He says: As a business traveler, you'll likely be met at your destination by someone who asks, so, how was your flight? This as if they are interesting variations and you might answer the live Orchestra was a nice touch or the first half was great, but then they let a baby take over the controls and it got a little bumpy. And in fact, there are only two kinds of flights ones in which you die and ones that which you do not yeah. Yeah. Alright, so another one that I found interesting about family Dynamics. And then then Partners romantic partners that join the family later on. So this is quote: Hugh was there as well and while he's a definite presence, he didn't figure into the family dynamic. Mates to my sisters and me are seen mainly as Shadows of the people they're involved with they move their visible in direct sunlight, but because they don't have access to our emotional buttons. Because they can't make us 12 again or five and screaming, they don't really count as players. And that is so true too. I highlighted that as well. Yeah because I can I know for a fact that I resort to my like he said 12 year old self when I'm around my siblings and with my family at like the holidays or something. I mean, it's like it's not I mean. It's good and bad at the same time. You know it but it's true that when other people join the family it changes the dynamic but still it's not a bad thing. Yeah. Yeah. I just think it's probably intimidating for anyone dating the Sedaris like this huge family and try to fit in and keep up with them and at their jokes and everything. Yeah, I thought. His other aggression it was another one of his sisters right Gretchen. Yeah, it's funny. He talked about just like sitting out by the pool with them and getting a tan and kind of like talking and gossiping or kind of making fun of people or something. He said he said I meant to recount my recent battles with Hugh and his mother to tap into the comfort and outraged that only my family can provide. But just as I open my mouth Gretchen sat up and said lazily almost like someone who was talking in her sleep. Do you remember my old boyfriend Greg? Sure. She lit a cigarette and took a deep draw. He used to drink the liquid out of tuna can. The story of my argument was insignificant now dwarfed by this larger and infinitely more fascinating topic. I let go of my anger all of it and lean back on the beach blanket feeling palpably lighter, giddy almost feeling of related, oil or water? I asked Gretchen lean back as well and brought her cigarette to her son blistered lips, both. That's just the well well written exchange. That is that's very well done. Yeah. I think this was in that same chapter you said about the south people in the South saying have a blessed day. He was going around. He was just observing the different idiosyncrasies of the English language that people say in conversation and. But then he got to this point and this made me laugh. A lot of our outlawed terms weren't. Oh, I think I should I think he and his sisters I think had a list of terms that they could just nix that or he and his friend. I think we're saying that certain terms have been used to Ad nauseam and they should be outlawed. All right. So here's the quote. A lot of our outlawed terms were invented by black people and then picked up by whites who held onto them way past their expiration date my bad, for example, and I've got your back and you go girlfriend. They're the verbal equivalence of sitcom grandmother's high-fiving one another and on hearing them I wince and feel ashamed of my entire race. He's like self-aware of oh, yeah like that. Oh, absolutely now, Yeah his relationship with his dad was very interesting. I related more to his relationship with his siblings. So that's why I found that one a little more intriguing to me because but you know, he does have a very dynamic and you know. Yeah complicated relationship with his father. And so one thing he would do is he would like pick fights with his dad or do stuff like almost uncontrollably just to irk his dad and one thing was he would clog the toilet. And so this is the quote here. He would clog it with the cardboard part of the role of the toilet. You are going to reach down into this pipe and pick out that cardboard roll. My father said. Then you are never going to flush anything but toilet paper down this toilet again. As I backed away, he pounced. Then he wrestled me to the floor, grabbed my hand, and forced it deep into what amounted to my family's asshole and there it has been ever since, sorting through our various shit. It's like I froze in that moment with the same interests as that 11 year old boy, the same maturity level, the same haircut, the same glasses, even. I thought that was a pretty good. I think that moment probably did have a big impact on him because he's using it as a metaphor to basically his whole career is writing stories about sorting through his family shit. Yeah, and so, I'm sure that had a big moment for an 11 year old kid because he the dad literally took the toilet off the floor to figure out why it was so clogged. Yeah, and then but then later in that chapter he talks about how he did get along with his dad when it came to music. He said music is the only way I didn't rebel against him. I felt like that was a cool moment because like it didn't seem like any of his other siblings liked the same music as their dad, but he did. I thought that was neat. Yeah, it's like I think I've experienced this along with a lot of my friends. I don't know if you have but like with dad's it's kind of hard sometimes to click or like to talk about just anything or relate sometimes and I think that's really clear with him and his father like they're so different but with music, they didn't have to talk or anything. They could just kind of like both appreciate and listen, so. Now when you say that like that, it reminds me of the movie City Slickers where one of the characters says the like, I mean like they the men are talking about sports and baseball and they get criticized like come on you guys are grown adults, you know, why is baseball that important to you or whatever and one of the guys says that like well when I was like, I guess when I was a teenager and and. Fighting with my dad every, you know, almost every day. It seemed like baseball was the one thing we can communicate actually have a conversation about and I think that's true in life on many levels is that there are a variety of things that that people can find common ground on and that maybe calm the seas of the relation of their rocky relationship. Yeah, like for him. It's music for him and sports my her, you know and just yeah so different people my movies or art and another capacity or polyp. Maybe they like politics and talk about that or who knows. What else? Yeah. but when he talks about his mother and how like close he was with her one quote that kind of stood out to me was. Our mother was the one who held us all together. After her death we were like a fistful of damp soil loose bits breaking off with no one to press them back in. Just a short quote but it's pretty powerful like showing her impact on his life, right? Is that a metaphor the soil? Yeah. Yeah because I was I was I was having this conversation what's difference between a metaphor and analogy? I was like well metaphors more like abstract or more than an analogy is like a specific. This is like this but then like isn't that a simile I like well, yeah, I mean, I know this is off topic. No, I'd like an analogy. Yeah, like he was as fast as a cheetah. All right, that's a simile. I don't think analogies and similes are mutually exclusive. Okay? But a metaphor is more like this represents that like in an abstraction action. I believe it's been a while since I took. Okay, let's show you that's it. All right. So an analogy can be a simile and vice versa. Okay. I'll keep that in mind we’ll look it up later. Yeah one thing what oh another story I liked was I'm still standing because it was about. He witnessed the guy shit his pants in the airplane and yeah on airplane and then he got like food poisoning or something and he was sick for like a couple days. And so this is the quote. I liked. I'd hope that by the following morning I'd be back to normal, but there was no change. I'd gotten up three times during the night and was still passing a paint cans worth of rusty water every two hours or so. Where on Earth is this coming from? I wondered my eyes did I break stores of liquid hidden in my neck, my calves? I just like yeah, I didn't think the vulgar ones, Tim. There’s a pattern here. Yes. Laughs oh, we've all been there. All right, we want with their on the toilet like it's a sec. Yeah, but at all the while like I like throughout that that chapter or story. He's having the runs and he's in the airplane and he's like petrified of actually reliving his worst night or greatest humiliation. And then the Fitbit is still telling them to get up now. It's time to stand up. Yeah. yeah, that whole Fitbit chapter was funny how he. He got so obsessive about it like he at first had to get like 10,000 steps a day. And then I want 30. How much did he get up to like 60. It was insane. Yeah. I mean like I was worried. Oh my goodness. Yeah. But it's funny like him talking about that and then shopping as well. He kind of has these like obsessive Hobbies but they're not as like like everybody's got their thing like he says, My sisters and I refuse to feel bad about shopping and why should we? Obviously we have some whole we're trying to fill but doesn't everyone and isn't filling it with berets the size of toilet seat covers, if not more practical than at least healthier than filling it with frosting or heroin or unsafe sex with strangers. Yeah. It's a good one. Yeah, that is very good by putting. Yeah, and then just one more thing on that chapter is like news in Japan with like I think two of his sisters and shopping at these weird stores. The things and he's like even though we don't physically look that much alike when we're all sitting at this table wearing these ridiculous outfits that we are more alike than anyone. Yeah. Yeah part. Yeah. Yeah, it was good. Yeah, I yeah, I am realizing now that I had a lot of the gross quotes. Yeah, you have all these family ones. Well, yeah, it's okay the the takeaway is anyone could take something away from yeah David Sedaris. There you go. Whether you're into the gross things, right? The more deep right meaningful moments. Yeah, so I will just. I got I got to read off some of these insults because this is and while you're up there check my prostate was the name of the chapter and he just again is fascinated by these insults that other countries used to, you know, in road rage incidents. Some of them were: a cancer whore. May you build a house from your kidney stones. I shit in your mother's mouth. And he's like does it get any nastier than that? And I forgot I don't have the context for this one. All I did was highlight it. This is another one: shove your hand up my ass and jerk off my shit. So that was like a German I think and I think something got Lost in Translation. He's like he even said that it must sound different in their native like yeah sound quite so clunky. I just got ya. Yeah, that was a good one. Yeah, so I'll end on that one, but no like I felt like and then the last chapter was entitled The Comey memo and I thought it was interesting because like. he kind of here. I'll find it. I didn't highlight its before I printed this out. So. I'm just. yeah. Yeah, so he just says. There are things I avoid talking about with my father now, politics for instance. He's always operated on the assumption that I don't know anything, can't know anything really, the issues are far as far beyond my grasp as they are for the chimps in the calendar he gave me. Sure one might pull a lever and a voting booth, but there could be no actual thought behind it. The fight we had following Trump's election had been particularly ugly and we could easily have it again every hour of every day. I don't want to though. Don't want what could be the last words we say to it each other to be ugly. So now so I'll end on that note because like ultimately at the end of the day he wants to have a good relationship with his father. Yeah, and that's admirable despite their differences and worldview and outlook and everything, right? I had a one more about his father. Yeah, maybe I'll do this one that kind of goes off that he says well, While I know I can't control it what I ultimately hope to recall about my late in life father is not his nagging or his toes, but rather his fingers and the way he snaps them and listening to Jazz. He's done it forever signifying much as a cat does by purring that you may approach. That all is right with the world. Man, oh man, he'll say in my memory lifting his glass and taking us all in isn't this just fantastic? Yeah. Yeah, it's always good to have those pleasant memories that you can recall on somebody that even if they're still alive, you know what he's talking about it. A lasting memory hole have forever which is nice. Yeah, like when he talks about his sister Tiffany who committed suicide you can sense like his regret that towards the end. He didn't really try to have a relationship with her that she kind of burned them all so much in the past that it was hard to be close to her, but he still had some regret about it. Yeah, and that that is a difficult situation. I am fortunate that I do not have to go through something like that where a family member has become for whatever reasons unreliable or. No. Yeah, it sounds like she had mental illness or something. You did. Yeah, doesn't make it easier. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I guess I have one more kind of funny one just ended on a happy note. So Hugh and him were arguing about something and he says why can't you let people change this is akin to another one of his questions asked. Why do you choose to remember the negative rather than the positive? I don't. I insist thinking I will never forget you giving me such a hard time over this. Yeah, it does. Yeah again, it definitely seemed like Hugh and David have a have a pretty pretty strong bond. Yeah, I'm pretty yeah, but yeah, I again I like the book ready for rating time. Yeah. All right. I give it a 4 out of 5 Stars. I really liked. Yeah, it was good. What would it have to do to be a five for you? Good question. I just don't know I don't think it can. I don't think this type of book can be a five for me because I just feel like. I don’t know, I mean maybe if all of maybe if all the little things he weaves throughout the story like hit all the right notes for Me. Maybe maybe then it could be a 5 like I don't know. You know, I like the turtle thing, him feeding his tumor to the turtle. It was funny story. But like, you know, okay, I mean. Like I said, I enjoyed a siblings relationship more than his father. And so like I guess it all those themes throughout the book all were spot-on for me then I would maybe give it a 5. Why do you ask, do you were you close to giving it five know? I know it's actually between four and five. Okay, I think yeah, I guess the last thing I'll say like what I take away is that anyone who has like some troubled relationship with her father, sister, Mother, whoever like I think you can find something to relate to him and what he's talking about and everybody has relationships and then issues and whatever. So I like that about it for me. Like I said earlier like it felt a little repetitive and towards the end a lot of the stories kind of ran together. So if they kind of stood out a little more than I probably would give it five but it's a great book. Oh, yeah. I definitely recommend it to ya. So what we're reading next time, too. Next book is The Laws of Human Nature by Robert Greene. Okay, how far you and then 20% Yeah 25 right anymore. No, have you look great. It's a long but it is a long time we'll get to it eventually. Yeah, so go to our website two guys one book.com comment on anything you want literally anything and we might read it on air. Until then, keep reading.
How to Live by Sarah Bakewell
How to Live by Sarah Bakewell
Okay. Hi, this is Tim and Brian today's book are at this week's book is How to Live by Sarah Bakewell and it's about the philosopher Montaigne or Montaigne going to the audiobook. I think the audiobooks wrong personally because what do they know? Yeah. Correct. This is the School of Life on YouTube calls him montane.
How do you watch the school? Yeah, man. He really prepared for this. Well, I didn't watch it. I didn't watch the video in preparation of the interview. I was discussing the book incidence. I just I was I was going down a rabbit hole of YouTube and I just saw the one book about the book of life for Montagne and I clicked on.
And they said Montagne. I'm like that's good enough for me., so I chose this book to read which I don't know if you're happy about it or not. We'll find out. We'll see, and I chose it because I thought it would be interesting to learn about. I don't know didn't know much about him going into this and, like his work stuff kind of stood the test of time they've been around for a while.
So I wanted to kind of see what all the hype was about Montaigne. So you've heard of this guy before the book, right? I had not. I didn't know that no idea existed like vaguely knew him. Okay,, and I've read like bits and pieces or he's kind of quotable. I think like a little aphorisms like Ben Franklin type stuff.
Oh, yeah, that's definitely. Yeah, so did it live up to your hype - what you hoping? Not entirely. I was a little disappointed. I'll be honest. Oh really? Because yeah, even though he's really well. He's pretty interesting and there were parts of the book. I enjoyed on the whole. I don't think it was tied together that well or like super captivating.
I know it took us longer than usual to read. This is a bit of a slog. I don't know what you think. Yeah, I mean it was it was rough go for me. I mean, it's summertime we have stuff going on. I mean I got I got sidetracked with family reunions and whatnot. So,, yes part of part of the reason was my delay in reading the book.
But, yeah, I liked it. But like I respect the author because it's like a history book. It's not like a biography right, you know and. You know the title I think is a little misleading for sure because it doesn't really like that the table contents looks pretty intriguing, you know, how to live in 20.
What does it say in one question in 20 attempts at an answer. So and the table of contents is 20 chapters and so each one is like, uh little catchy little phrase of how to live like, Survive, love and loss, use little tricks and you know, uh convivial like so the table contents of the chapter setup leads me to believe that like, each one is going to have a little like going to be wrapped up like with Montaigne aphorism. Like you said. Yeah that. Convey that, you know relates to each one each of the chapters, but then she got talking about how Montagne was read centuries later and I'm like and she was name dropping all these people.
I was like, I don't know who all these people are. Like, what do I care? You know, I mean, like I feel like if someone was big fan of Montaigne and had read his essays because that was his main work was his essays. If someone was a fan of his essay, so I think they should read this book. Yeah, right, don't you agree or not?
You should have read some going into this. Well, I mean, I don't know it might have been a different experience a little bit. It could have been it could have been. I thought that she did include more of his writing in the actual book instead of like you said just kind of talking about the historical aspects of it, which it's important to have some like context and stuff for the time.
But like if you're going to just mention the essays again and again, That he wrote, you know, the famous essays then why not include more of them and actually have that direct source. I mean she did a lot, you know, they were at least in the printed version there were, you know, a little paragraphs a little segments of her directly quoting from the essays.
I'm not saying she didn't do it, but she also kind of rambled about historical stuff that wasn't always like all the Kings and the wars of France, right? I mean, yeah, I agree. I mean it definitely ramble and I mean it was interesting at times. Yeah, I say that with upward inflection because I thought it was interesting maybe like but on the whole it didn't I it was interesting but it but it dragged on right way to put it.
Yes, especially towards the end. Yeah. Yeah, and I can understand some extent of the context because like. This was after the reformation and kind of the Renaissance the plague was happening. So all of these things were influencing his life and like the wars between the Catholic and Protestants. So that's part of the reason he developed his sort of like philosophy of just I don't know.
What how would you summarize it? Like living in ordinary life and just living simply, um observing the world around you and trying to like. Put yourself in other people's shoes and perspectives things like that. Yeah. Yeah. I think that wraps it up pretty well. I mean, he was very much a stoic and a skeptic right and then she and I like that part where she talked about his upbringing and his background and what he read and what he found interesting and shaped his worldview and I very much like that because it was a lot of stuff I like too.
I feel like if I was to read the essays, I think I would enjoy them. but I don't I haven't read it one day probably I mean, but I feel like I think I think she does do a good job of giving the like she explains the events that happened in Montaigne's life that led him to kind of view the world this way.
Yeah, and so you're right she didn’t explicitly always, she quoted the essays some but not, you know, not all the time and but I think that's what it was and at the end of the day it is. And but it was more history Laden as well. So I mean it was just it was just kind of rough to read at times.
Yeah, and there were times where I thought she might have been stretching with her assumptions because it's like this guy was 500 years ago. How do you know like what events led up to think in certain ways a lot of that is just sort of guessing on your part. Right? Right. Yeah, I agree. I just wish there were more kind of synthesis of his ideas synthesizing.
Here were the different things that he thought and I combine these into a way that is new and interesting. I don't know how much we would have got versus reading the essays dry clean versus reading this book. Right but I think that's why she kind of goes into the history of things because it sets up the world in which he lives in which he because like if he if we just read the essays that's a sit.
I mean, we don't I we haven't read the essay right? So maybe you know, Maybe there's stuff in there where he kind of rambles on were like, well, what's he talking about? And then maybe she's supplying more context for those right? Because he I mean that's all the essays were. We're just a bunch of his digressions and ramblings,, which.
I'm sure we're very eloquent you know 1500s French guy. Well, it was almost like she couldn't decide if this was going to be biography history book or self-help book because the time, you know, like it comes off like a self-help. Yeah the title and the lead up to 20 ways live your life.
Right? But I wonder if that was almost like an intentional misdirection almost like a meta point because a lot of his essays she described as being., starting out with a certain topic and then not following that kind of progressing and I wonder if she did that intentionally. Maybe I'm reaching there.
She may have or maybe you know people have viewed the essays as such a, you know, a Monumental work that affected them so deeply that she was going off of that, I guess quality of the essays that people found so good is that, you know, it's their reading and it's like their experience.
He's experiencing what they're experiencing even centuries later. And so because people have such a profound relationship with the essays, maybe she's leading that in the how she wants to portray Montaigne's life as well. Yeah. Yeah, well a lot of self-help books probably make to over too many like overarching points or kind of big declarations and his whole life is just like as she describes it saying things like I don't really know what I'm talking about.
But here's what I noticed about this or that so observations and then these kind of disclaimers like but who really knows right? Right. I kind of like it's more humble than the average like philosopher. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely and I and I you know, That's something I think we could I think that's one thing that makes Montaigne.
So, um relatable is that you know, these great philosophers like Socrates and Plato and all of them are like, you know seems so wise. Like I don't I don't you know, I haven't read much Socrates and Plato but like they I mean they don't seem like they they're ones to have doubt right, you know Montaigne is like what have like she's I think she mentioned the specific of the write a paragraph about how he used the world and at the end he said like or maybe not I don't know, you know, like and I kind of dig that, you know, because like Montaigne at the end knows that he's just experiencing the world through his lens and who's he to say that other people view things the same way as he does, right and one thing was him and his cat, he views the world from his cats perspective and I thought was cool. I enjoyed that. They're a big parts of this book talking about his sort of views on animals and.
Talking about like thinking things from an animal's perspective like dogs and cats and there's just really funny because yeah, you don't hear philosophers talk about a bunch. But it's like yeah, maybe certain animals are smarter than us in certain ways and that they can perceive reality differently or something, you know, the kind of mention that, yeah things like that.
Yeah, but yeah, the skepticism really came out and some of the quotes like,, All I know is that I know nothing and I'm not even sure about that. That was a good. I've heard the first part of the quote Socrates, but then the last part,, kind of makes it even better. I think yeah. So yeah, the three philosophies were stoicism skepticism and epicureanism that sort of guided his life right. Stoicism and epicureanism I guess we're similar in some ways that it was like trying not to let your emotions. Take control of you too much and to try and live in the present or big parts of them. I think wasn't there a difference the way they dealt with that find how to live in the present., I think stoics were like always thinking like things could always be worse right and epicureans.
I forget like they were I forget the details more positive. I think in general like she compared stoics to like boxers. Uh epicureanism missed to, like martial arts Zen Masters kind of something like that because Stokes yeah, they would visualize maybe the worst case scenario of something that could happen and try to like Replay that scenario in their minds and prepare for the worst.
So just toughen up and epicureanism were kind of more about. They put a positive spin on things. I guess there's more to it. But yeah, I know that was like, you know in the first third of the book that I read like three weeks ago. So forgive me for not remember those Yeah. Well, yeah, that was definitely I mean, yeah, do you have any favorite like specific chapters or anything? do you know do you remember or definitely the philosophy one? We were just talking about apart stalking about the animals., those are honestly to in my most favorite because I like those philosophies and I like animals besides that I don't know. Do you have a favorite one or like a favorite lesson?
No, it was definitely the philosophy one where yeah where yeah, we go into the details of how Montaigne what Montaigne read to help shaped his worldview, which I found very interesting. but then you know, like as I was slogging through the book this week trying to finish it. The part of the end I really enjoyed was this
Marie De Gurney a oh the yeah, she was the young girl that invited him to their home. When he was in Paris one time and he visited him and she was because she read his original essays and became a super fan and he she became a doctor daughter of Montaigne, right and then after his death, she then edited his last version of the essays and I kind of I found her refreshing because even 1500 France like she you know was.
I'll kind of a feminist right and I and I thought that was kind of cool. I didn't expect to be reading about Montaigne and have a strong female character, you know, because it seemed like his wife and his mother and his daughter. I mean like he didn't really even go into they talked about their with his relationship with his mother and wife's, yeah, but kind of like how they each had their own.
He and his wife had their own Tower and the home. So like how much did they really, get along. I mean they seem they seemed amicable and that he/she very much, took care of his remains after he died as a show of, loving respect. But, yeah, but to read about this, this young girl, then that takes on his work and helps edit it later.
I thought was pretty cool and how she's kind of a Spitfire and wasn't going to adhere to the patriarchy of the 1500s but as best as she could sound like she was like. Had a crush on him or something or that he probably like yet had was attracted to her. But he was just so old she came like right that's what that's what the author kind of alluded to is that like, we're not really sure how Montagne felt about her at first, like maybe he was trying to he would when they're trying to hopefully seduce her and then she wasn't having it and he's like, okay fine.
You'll be my adopted daughter. That's that creepy to go from one to the other. But yeah, yeah, that was cool character. I'm caring person. Well, yeah, and then so she kind of translated an edition of his book, right which she didn't she added as she added. Yeah, but that I mean that raises an interesting point which is like throughout history depending on the era and the person whoever translates or edits an addition will have their own kind of spin to it, right?
So yeah, that's what I mean. That was the whole. Like chapter 17 or 18 in there. It was a whole chapter about how the English seemed to always like Montaigne because they were Protestant country. And so the Montaigne was never band and they had a good translator of Montaigne and, they considered him as English as any other author.
and yeah how it's interesting over centuries how at different times and depending on the translation or editing of the book, people can view it differently and you know, like I guess that was interesting but like I mean the author did extensive work, I give kudos to the author for all the research she did for this book because I mean that was very detailed but like I didn't.
Don't need all the details. I mean that's why I say I reiterate the fact that if I was a fan of Montaigne and the fan of the essays then I find this book more interesting. Yeah, because then it shows the evolution of work that's hundreds of years old and how it can evolve. Yeah, it's funny you mention his wife because.
I remember reading in a small part where and he got this from Socrates originally to marry a difficult wife because then you're testing your kind of ability to deal with adversity. You're living what you're practicing What You Preach? Yeah big very much. Yeah, I think I told my dad that once like Socrates married a really difficult life so that he could like live up to these.
High standards and testing himself and he's like, that's a bad idea. Yeah, probably. Oh man. Yeah. But he wasn't like a super lofty philosopher. He's just kind of like an everyday prison which at the time it probably was more significant because like a lot of people these days right about everyday stuff.
But like at the time you weren't really supposed to write unless you did these Grand things or something. Oh, yeah. So yeah, it was more unique probably. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I think that was refreshing of during that time as to have somebody who wrote just about everyday life because yeah, it's Got to Be.
Like you said, there's plague going on. There's civil wars in France, you know life is pretty lousy, right? I mean and to have only people write books that talk about these lofty ideals, you know can seem rather over everyone's head. I mean like who cares about that when you're just trying to stay healthy and feed yourself and not get killed.
Yeah,, but, Yeah, but writing about everyday life as Montagne did I think did adhere himself to, The Peasants or normal more everyday people of the time had like a sense of humor throughout. Yeah considering the dark times was but like you talked about the English people being a fan of his which was also interesting and they said maybe even, Shakespeare was like influenced by him, which is pretty cool as well. Yeah, that was cool. And then then like the next paragraph in that chapter. She talks like some guy had this crazy conspiracy where Francis Bacon was originally was actually the author of some Shakespeare plays and Francis Bacon was the author of the essays like at the same time.
Yeah. I mean it was like flimsy stuff like how in Shakespeare's plays. They talked about a lot about mounting mountains Mount which could be mounting montane, which is the French guys. Yeah, right. I mean super-stretch. so, like I mean little things like that. I didn't think we're needed but I guess she had to fill the book.
Yeah, but yeah, it's sort of guessing if he was if Shakespeare really was influenced by him. But you could say like Montaigne thought a lot about from thanks from a lot of people's perspectives and Shakespeare is good at like put it in self in these different characters’ shoes, or at least the works attributed to him.
Yeah, but all these like other popular figures, like Nietzsche grader. Can you chose really influenced me whatever. Yeah Nietzsche whatever and like I think Rousseau or like. Various philosophers, but then there is people there were people like Descartes or Pascal who were like angry about him thinking about the world of a cat's perspective like they were really I know all about it.
Oh man. It makes me so happy to think about these like serious philosophers getting. I know it by this guy thinking about how a cat Lincoln right and you know Montaigne would have thought that was hilarious like that. That's one thing. I do feel like I got a good appreciation of Montaigne from this book.
So I do feel like that. She does a good job of, making me appreciate him right as a thinker and a person. so yeah, Montaigne would have been. Would have been laughing about I'm like, why are you guys thinking so seriously?
Yeah, you don't want to read the essays now. I mean, I feel like I don't know what I would what I get more from the essays now. I mean, I feel like the main parts I kind of get that you get the gist of it, right? Yeah. I feel like reading the essays now would just be slogging through a lot of discourse to find the Nuggets that I find interesting.
Yeah. And maybe this book already has polished the nuggets for me. So I don't have to do all that. It sounds like he used writing as a way just to think through things. Like as he was writing was like a stream of Consciousness style where I don't know how captivating it is to read because he'll just be bouncing back and forth probably.
So, I think one time she says that he goes on length about sneezes. Yeah, right.
but Io think it's fascinating how he was brought up initially because when he after right after he was born he was sent to a peasant family for the mother of the peasant family to be his wet nurse and I learned what I went was it wet nurse is actually is because you know, she would breastfeed him until he was about one.
And then he came back to the house with his mom and dad but they had a tutor there who would teach him Latin. So his first real language was Latin that his dad spoke a little of and his mom hardly none at all. So, like his first six years of his life was basically him talking to his tutor and a little bit of his dad.
I mean and not really I mean that's got to be a crazy way to bring up a kid. Yeah, but I mean. But it seemed to set them up well for Education because he's excelled in school because he knew Latin really well and then he then proceeded to have a successful, um political career after that too. Well what she talked about a lot was his upbringing was like a Montessori type education to where the dad would give him a lot of freedom to kind of do whatever he was interested in right just study his own I think.
So, that's kind of what I took away from it and that kind of plays out and it sold her life as well because he would get kind of bored easily. And if he didn't want to do something he just like wouldn't do it. He kind of came off like as lazy or irresponsible sometimes like the rest of his family would like have to pick up the slack maybe but you know, maybe that helped him as a thinker yeah.
Yeah. What else what else yeah, I guess I just wasn't I wasn't prepared for a full biography and history lesson. Yeah, that's what kind of slow mode and so on my reading down. So, what do you recommend this to people here to be like know what you're getting into?
Yeah, you got to know what you're getting into., thanks a lot, Tim. Picking the right. So like every page at least less depressing. Right? Right. So yeah, I agree. It was less depressing. I mean you had people you'd Civil War and people dying in the plague. And all kinds of nasty stuff and how he dies is terrible like he gets a kidney stone infection and then his throat and then his whole body swells up including his throat and then he slowly suffocates to death.
Yeah, that's pretty bad. But he also I mean, yeah, that's terrible. But like in the early part of the book she talks about how he had a near-death experience like nearly falling off of a horse. So and then he like came back from that and he said it wasn't that bad. Every wasn't a scared. Right, which you wonder I don't know.
I know I know that that kind of kicked him off on this whole philosophical Journey that he and on because he didn't really write before then and, I do like that, you know, she led the book with that right because that was such a Monumental event in his life that that was really the Crux of this whole work really.
And his best friend dying. Yes. Love had that French. Very pretentious way of saying yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I tell you what, there were a lot of French names in here may otter French stuff. Yeah. One slogged through it one more funny thing about him right in the horse. Yeah in general because he was like a pretty short guy.
She said he would ride the horse to look taller. I'm like just he came off like he was always trying to like stuff. It's kind of funny, but it didn't sound like height the height was too much of an issue back then right? I mean, yeah, I mean she was yes shorter than I think the average person but I guess it is what it was what it was it was it was just funny that like, oh man though, but yeah, it does not make me want to have kidney stones man.
Nobody wants to have kidney stones like. Yeah, he was yeah, I and like I think she made a comment that was one criticism of some people like in later years. They were like does he have to talk about his urination so much for like, you know, if you're having kidney stones and you're just writing in your essays of whatever you're thinking about that's going to be on your mind, you know, like I can't imagine having kidney stones and then be like, oh write about, you know, the beautiful weather or something whatever is going on at day and I was like no me.
Freaking penis hurts Jesus. Should I not say that? You can you can he's supposed to be family-friendly? Yeah, but I mean that's just like he writes that way because that's he writes. What's on his mind. Whatever the hell? Yeah. Exactly. And that's the whole point. Yeah. Did you have favorite quotes?
You want to do favorite quotes? Yeah, man. You got one. Yeah, of course. I always a big recruits. This is early on a lot of my quotes. I found were the separate paragraph that she so from quote from the actual essays as I found a lot and this is just one early on about just what Montagne says.
He says if others examined themselves attentively as I do they would find themselves as I do full of inanity and nonsense get rid of it. I cannot without getting rid of myself. We are all steeped in it one as much as another but those who are aware of it are a little better off. Though, I don't know.
I should just end all my sentences.
Although I don't know.
Yeah, okay. So, I can give one about like animals that we were talking about. Sure. Sure., here we go. So, he says we humans persistent thinking of ourselves as separate from all other creatures closer to God's than to chameleons or parrotfish. It never occurs to us to rank ourselves among animals or to put ourselves in their minds.
We barely stopped to wonder whether they have Minds at all. Yet for Montagne it is enough to watch a dog dreaming to see that it must have an inner world just like ours. And he talks about like a dog and dreaming and thinking about running after like a rabbit or so. Yeah. I did like that. I got another one about animals. Should we stick to the animal things? Yeah, go for it.
There is a certain respect and a great duty of humanity that attaches us not only to animals who have life and feeling but even to trees and plants. We owe justice to men and mercy and kindness to other creatures. That may be capable of receiving it there is some relationship between them and us and some mutual obligation.
So you like the hippie stuff. I do like just love nature man. I love hugging those trees.
I also found it interesting how Montaigne would like he was fascinated with like. Well, like how you respond to a mob or something like that, you know because like he was he was robbed a couple times but one time bandits overtook his party and he basically told them that if they take him for ransom, they're not going to get any money and he was blunt with them and then they talked it over and let him go.
and. You know in times when there's thieves and robbers all throughout the countryside. He has his compound completely unlocked. I think there was a quote in there about when you have your place completely unblocked and open for all because he welcome people to his place too.
You give the impression that there's that you've nothing to hide right And then therefore nothing to valuable psychologic. Yeah, right. Like if you like to keep something valuable in your home leave it out in the open because if somebody comes to Rob your house though Overlook that that things sitting on the table because they think your valuables are hidden in a drawer somewhere, right?
Yeah pretty like it comment. Yeah. I don't know. Common sense but it's smart like kind of human. Yeah psychology or understanding how people are right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I got one. All right. So this is TS Eliot describing Montaigne. Yeah. So he says, of all authors Montaigne is one of the least destructible you could as well dissipate a fog by fleeing hand grenades into it for Montagne is a fog, a gas, a fluid Insidious element.
He does not reason he insinuates charms and influences or if you reasons you must be prepared for his having some other design upon you then to convince you by his argument. So and she kind of goes on to say like he neither argues nor persuades. He just seduces right like he turns the reader without making this kind of Grand overarching Point.
yes, I definitely highlighted a lot in the chapter about his philosophy, and what he read chapter 6 when how to live answer use little tricks. I mean, it's basically saying that the thought that the ability to enjoy life is forwarded by two big weaknesses lack of control over emotions and a tendency to pay too little attention to the present and then in Montaigne goes on to say.
Do not seek to have everything that happens happen as you wish but wish for everything to happen as it actually does happen. And your life will be Serene. That's good. That's kind of the Latin like Amor Fati. Yeah. Oh, yeah, she mentions that several times in the book of Fate. Yeah, and she also said like we're closer. And it's obvious when you think about it, but like we're closer to him and history than he was to the Greeks that crazy. Like it makes sense for like to really contextualize that it's like wow. We are a lot closer to him and history but we both draw from all that.
Yeah, and to think that he lived before like you America was even close to becoming a country, he lived when they were still colonizing the new world. Like, I mean, it's just it's mind-boggling and then I did like the little nugget that I think early in the book. She talks about the Civil Wars in France kind of came at a bad time.
Well, I mean, let me let me rephrase that the Civil Wars in France. Came at a time when exploration was happening in to the new world and colonization was happening. And so France kind of missed the boat literally about colonizing the new world. So we speak English, south of here speaks Spanish and Portuguese and you got French Canadian French Canadian.
Yeah French Canada, that's about it, so a France had their shit together. Maybe we'd be speaking French right now. I said, you know what I'm saying? Like yeah. Yeah, they had a lot of their own internal stuff working through. I mean we allied with them at one point. Oh, yeah, I mean they got their stuff together later.
But like yeah, I just find that interesting that that domestic disturbances in France caused them to miss out on a., uh worldwide political geopolitical, you know movement that was happening. Yeah, but then out of all the turmoil and stuff. They have like the enlightenment where a lot of French thinkers were Enlightenment thinkers, and then they would go on to influence like, you know, like American philosophy sure, like there was some things that came with that but then they still had like the French Revolution and everything right there.
Still dark times ahead. Oh, yeah, so I'm just thinking purely from. Colonization Point yeah, you know, yeah, I'm not saying that France didn't have big impact on Society world, you know society and greater thinking,, you know advancements. Right, but just purely in settlement of geographical regions.
They kind of missed out on because they had their own stuff though. Colonists did a lot of bad things. Yeah. I'm not I'm not they really missed out. Well, it is taking over people's land. I understand what. Oh, oh, yeah, here's something about his leaving the doors unlocked of his place and not not keeping a microscope on his servants and whatnot.
He said yet it seemed to him better to lose money occasionally than to waste time tracking every penny in watching his servants tiniest movements. that's just be like Montaigne had a good outlook on life. It's pretty laid back.
I got another one. Okay, go for it. All right. yeah, this is Montaigne direct Montaigne.
I have seen no more evident monstrosity and miracle in the world than myself. We become habituated to anything strange by use and time. But the more I frequent myself and Know Myself the more my deformity astonishes me and the less I understand myself.
I think I found my favorite quote of the book. That's your favorite. Yeah, it's got to be because he's so true that we become habituated to anything strange by use and time right and, you know go off on a tangent here. That movie we saw sorry to bother you. the squeeze the character squeeze at the end.
He says when something outrageous happens and when people don't know what to do the abnormal over time becomes normal, right? And this is what Montaigne's saying to as we get used to anything by using time, but ourselves. We're so intimately attached to who we are but yet we can look at ourselves in different situations and different chapters of our lives and we're totally different people.
yeah, I guess the whole idea of normalization is that you're so close to something day after day. They don't kind of see the forest through the trees I, which has a good point and in general it sounded like he was. Opposed to habit for that reason because you get so caught in your own point of view and that's part of why he talked about jumping into other people's perspectives, which you know is a pretty Timeless lesson just like put yourself in someone else's shoes and try to see the world from their point of view and you can do that with your with your past selves too.
Or yeah, or cat. Yes or cat Tim. Okay. Yeah, I think I can do
but like. I just found this this another little tidbit.
I found fascinating is people who really looked up to Montagne and his essays and one of them was Stefan Zweig who was an Austrian Jew who fled Austria during the Holocaust of course and then bounced around a couple countries and ended up in Brazil and like. Where he didn't really feel like he fit in he was glad Brazil took him in with open arms, but he found in Montaigne some Solace, but then he ended up killing himself.
He and his wife like decided to kill himself. But this is what with said, um
extracted a series of general rules from the essays and these are his rules. Be free from vanity and pride. Be free from belief disbelief convictions and parties. Be free from habit. Be free from ambition and greed. Be free from family and surroundings. Be free from fanaticism. Be free from be master of your own self. Be free from Death life depends on the will of others but death on our will our own will.
And then then like the next paragraph the author says that he like took some poison or something. He and his wife committed suicide. I'm like damn that's depressing. Yeah, so like yeah, I think those lessons some pretty well, uh his philosophy.
I don't know if I agree with all of them. I don't know right of course, I mean, but like knowing this Zweig gentleman's position where he was exiled, From his homeland and I think he killed himself before World War II was even over so like he had no glimpse of Hope on the horizon. I just can't imagine being that you know in such despair.
Yeah. Well, I guess one thing I like about reading in general is that if you find an author who matches a thought that you had or felt they couldn't articulate. That's like a great feeling and so I think a lot of people find that in Montaigne because he does capture these everyday things pretty well and it was interesting like throughout time how it meant different things to different people or like groups of people.
She talked about how like the romantics the Romantic Era saw the certain way then like 19th Century, 20th Century each had a different like Virginia Woolf. Oh, yeah. That's really loved. Yeah, and then here's another quote highlighted that kind of touches on your point there because like Mont the author says Montaigne you knew that his own work would keep going through the same Mill for as long as it had readers meaning it would be changed over the years and all this stuff and what Montaigne says of that.
And able reader often discovers and other men's writings Perfections Beyond those that the author put in or perceived and lends them richer meanings and aspects.
So exactly what you said is like we find in authors what we can't even articulate ourselves, but then this goes another step further where we read into authors Works what we get out of it.
Is sometimes not even with the author intended but that's so fantastic about reading and art in general at the whole new dimension to yeah. Yeah. It's like makes it a shared experience to like we think of eating this kind of a passive thing but really like taking an idea and then, you know combine it with your own thoughts.
Yeah and how you can read something in one moment of your life and have it mean one thing. Yeah, and then years later. If you read you know revisit that work, it may have a whole new meaning or completely different meaning or have no meaning at all anymore. Right? And so, you know, you can get you can you can get you know, you can have all kinds of feelings about that.
But you can just still appreciate it for what it was at that moment in time, yeah, that's why it's interesting to record these because it can go back and be right can't believe I thought I can't believe I made Tim read Blood Meridian. All right. Did you have your favorite quote?
So I think this sums it up pretty well. Okay. So I like this quote and then her short explanation that follows it. If you fail to grasp life, it will elude you if you do grasp it will leave you anyway, so you must follow it and you must drink quickly as though from a rapid stream that will not always flow the trick is to maintain and kind of naive amazement at each instant of experience.
But as Montagne learned and one of the best techniques for doing this is to write about everything simply describing an object on your table or the view from your window opens your eyes to how marvelous such ordinary things are.
Yeah. Yeah, and I think yeah just the constant theme of him riding all the time and then it helps you see the world differently.
It's like once you once you put your thoughts on paper and then reflect on them, it just helps you become I think more objective and NC. Get a broader perspective of the world, right? Yeah, I think that quote does wrap things up. Very nicely. Yeah, because I think I think that's what this book in particular is about.
It's about Montaigne writing just writing whatever he wanted and then the author is explaining what's happening in the world around them. You know, I think the essays themselves. I think are more of a personal thing because your view your reading Montaigne's thoughts and his views on the world.
And this book that we read is basically describing Montaigne's writings in the context of the world going on around it. And that's just it that's what you said is like. You know life will elude you no matter what so you can do this drink from the stream while flows. Yeah. Yeah keep running, but I guess I do appreciate more of the context of it after talking it over because that's really what this book adds is the backdrop for his writing and maybe part of the reason why he wrote what he did.
Do you have a rating for this book?, so that being said after going over the good and bad thing. Yeah, then we thought I think. I will give it every doing three like stars. Yeah, okay. Yeah stars rating whatever. I know his five or ten. It's about a five. Okay, three stars. Yeah, same here three stars on five would use today.
Even if I said, yes, okay, I write it down first. Oh really like a blind like, okay. This is I'm going to say for myself. So I mean, I don't want to., I mean really for me most of the time it's going to be on a 3 3 level scale. Yeah, I'm probably going to do a lot of twos threes and fours unless we read a book.
I really hate then it'll be a one but a book. I got a really love the book to give it a 5. Yeah, you know, so it's going to be a lot of two threes and fours and this is a I think it's solid three. I mean, I think my tardiness and getting it finished made me doubt it and be like well, maybe it's a to because I didn't enjoy reading it that much but I think I appreciate very much what the author did in this in this book.
Is she collected all the I mean events in the world and the interpretations of Montaigne after his death and all that stuff together and I think that's what's Very admirable and I think definitely for people who like Montaigne or like the essays that I think this is a must read for those people.
What do you recommend it to like your friends and family saying like if you really like philosophy and some history and yeah, then you'd probably enjoy it. But for most people the average reader, I think he could pass. Yeah, I agree. So with that being said, we're on to our next book, right?
Yeah, what's her next book? Come on Tim, it's my choice. I'm choosing a Malcolm Gladwell book. I didn't I never read Malcolm Gladwell before I'm just a fan of his podcast. But now I'm reading them. We're going to read blink. I think he's overrated. I know that's going to be serious fireworks, you know, maybe my mind will be changed as I read the book and I'll say oh maybe I had these unfair preconceived notions, but I've seen like lectures by him and I.
You know heard bits and pieces of his podcast bits and pieces but it's like that's enough for me for you to make your mind. All right, Lee judge something like montane. He'll be around 500 years from now. Oh my goodness. Nobody will be around five around physically but like, I knew what you meant. I didn't mean physically.
I like I think but you could say that about a lot of social science stuff. I think a lot of modern intellectual. People are kind of Imperial. I'm very I'm very ephemeral damn it. But now he probably had some good ideas and I don't know what get into a next time. Well, yeah. Yeah stay tuned.
But yes, but please go to our website two guys one book dot com and make your comments there if you have any yeah read the next book with us and then. You can be part of the experience. Yes, we have the next couple books posted up there. So you can check out our reading this coming up got a lot to read.
Oh, yeah, all we do. All right. Thanks for listening.