Hi, welcome back to two guys one book. I'm Brian. I'm Tim - I said I wanted to be like this just time. We'll figure it. Yeah. So this week Brian chose rendezvous with Rama by Arthur C Clarke. Yeah. Why did you choose it Brian?
Because it's I want to read more science fiction because I like science fiction and Arthur C Clark is you know, I went on the Mount Rushmore of Science Fiction authors. He did 2001 A Space Odyssey. That was too mainstream. So I just kind of researched into what else he wrote and this one sounded interesting. So this is why I picked it. I know it took you a while to get through it because you're not a science fiction reader? Do you want to try to give your synopsis of the plot and then I can elaborate upon it again?
Yeah. Yeah, I'll say it did take me a while to get into I don't read sci-fi that often or fiction in general but especially sci-fi feels a little like nerdy, but I'm nerd too. So I should appreciate it. Yeah, basically it's like the year 2077. I. No, I think it's later than that. I think it's like 2130.
Okay, you're right. Yeah, it was I remember that year stands out because that's when they started the meteorite hit like Italy somewhere and then it cause like huge Devastation. And then that's when they started building these spaceships to like confront things that come into orbit to prevent another tragedy. So that's when like, it kind of sets the stage and then yeah, 2130 or something. Basically, they encounter like what they think might be another asteroid but it turns out to be this like crazy floating thing and another world. I don't know you describe it, right.
It is a flying cylinder through space that is flying along. It is laterally like a cylinder on its side. Flying through space like a Pringles can. Yes, that's perfect. Because it was many many kilometers long and had a good size diameter to and it was spinning while it was a Pringles can basically rolling across the floor was what Rama was and but it was going through space obviously so because like, I'm fascinated to get your perspective on this because.
Would you say that this book that this story there's a lot that happens? Really you would say that. Oh, you're asking me. Yes, I'm asking your opinion. Do you think this book? No. No, I don't think about that much happened. And I think this is where I think that we're gonna have a good discussion because I think we can Branch off on several different toxic topics like extraterrestrial life and and space exploration and and you know, just Pringles.
Yes Pringles. Yes, I agree. There's a lot of directions we could take this conversation, right? But it's funny. You mentioned that not much really happened in general because. Someone else I was reading there like review of the book and they said it just felt like one big tease that hurts. Like there's never really a payoff.You keep waiting. They keep encountering this mysterious planet and trying to find more about it that and okay.
So you think Rama is a planet not a spacecraft.
I mean do they ever explicitly say? No because it's an alien. Object like somewhere between a planet and a spacecraft right? Can I kind geek and elaborate a pilot the Pringles can that is Rama?
It I found this book so fascinating because this is a purely original idea. Right like I've never even heard of this before where. Essentially the Pringles can is hollow inside or Rama? Rama is hollow inside the enter it from like the what they call the north plane and they stay along the axis and what so since Rama is spinning.
It's hollow inside it that centripetal force gives it a sense of gravity on the inside where they come out. I mean like I don't even do it justice. I'm. But think they come in the axis of the rotation of the drama. They enter Rama and there at this this bottom of this bowl and they look out and they just see this the the whole length.
They don't see it obvious because it's dark at first when they go in there and they see this whole length of the of the Rama just expanding before them. And there's these they do everything in threes. And so they have these three stairways leading. From this bottom of this bowl, but they are radially outwards and as you go along the stairways though, the rotation of Rama creates that gravity effect to where you can walk along the inner walls of Rama and look above you and see across the diameter.
You can see that cross the diameter of inside Rama and it’s not sky, but it's the other ground like it reminds me of the end of inception or not Inception, Interstellar. I get my Christopher Nolan movies mixed up where they leave Earth and they created their like in this spaceship and it's kind of like they kids are playing baseball and they hit a ball and it goes up and it cracks a window like up on the side of the circular space ship so. I mean, I just felt like the way Arthur C Clarke explain things. I found it so fascinating that that there was this hollowed-out cylinder with its own gravity and then eventually as it gets close to the sun heats up and the ice in the middle of the cylinder that runs radially inside the cylinder melts, and there's some sort of water and then life and then there's weather on the inside a storm happens. The astronauts have to seek Shelter From The Storm they get out of drama, but then that when they go back in then, you know, things are then light the lights turn on and these little they call them by biots, which are little bike.
Biots. Yeah, bio robots biological robots or something and that are basically groundskeepers for the inside Aroma and I just had this I could picture is so clearly that this this massive ship. I mean and everything he did it because like Arthur C Clarke is like a scientist a legit scientists and you just write then you wrote books as well.
So like all the science makes logical sense that And it was I just found it very compelling. Yeah, you studied physics, right? Yes. Okay. Yeah. I thought that physics were interesting like you were saying how it's a cylinder and you can walk around and it was funny. They talked about the explorers like would freak out a little bit that it because they'd be walking and then see like upside down.
Yeah and like it resist that urge to feel like they're falling or that sense that yeah, so oh, yeah, I just. I just found this there's like an ocean. Yes cylindrical, right the cylindrical sea. Yes. Thank you. That is about halfway down the Rama that the runs it but you know just circles the midpoint of Rama so to speak and so they only stay on the North half and you know the South half they don't even really get to because of the it's the such a big Cliff by the cylindrical sea so they don't even.
They explore that a little bit with some sort of like pedal bike thing that flies because like that's the beauty one thing. I found fascinating was that at that axis of rotation inside Rama, there was zero g because you're still in outer space and it's and that's the rotational effects of Rama aren't felt there and it just I just felt like that was so creative and imaginative that.
I just dug it. Yeah, I think you have to give Arthur C Clarke some credit for being that creative while still maintaining the scientific grounding that it is a little bit realistic, I guess right someone degree in general. I like the idea. This small team going up to confront this massive thing like the unknown and not really knowing what to expect, you know, knowing that they could risk dying by going out there, but trying to discover more about this this thing.
So I like that aspect of it just like the adventure side and the yeah, I also liked the United planets like that part where they had this basically Council back that was meeting at Mars. Basically, like the instead of the United Nations, it was the United planets and they even mentioned like sometimes I'm like, oh man a hundred some years ago.
They had the UN with all the countries on Earth and we can't imagine how complicated that would have been because the United planets was only ours 9 like Earth Venus. No. No, there's no one on Venus because it's so gaseous. But Mercury Earth Moon Mars had people on at the different asteroids in the asteroid belt and like on a couple moons of Jupiter and Saturn so I thought that was a cool aspect of it too that we were that he in his in this story humans are colonizing other planets to a point where people have prejudices from based on who were planet they’re from just like they would today from what country they're from and all that stuff.
Yeah, and each planet has its own characteristics to or like people from. Like Mercury like that's like a powerful Planet. So they're more aggressive and I wondered if he was trying to reflect like geopolitical realities in the real world, you know, like yeah this planet represents this nation and how they act like. Yeah The Mercury people might have been more maybe the Soviets because this wasn't drinking in the early 70s was when it was written time of the Cold War, right?
Yeah, so. So you're just not a science fiction guy, huh? I mean, okay. I'm trying to think sci-fi. I liked in the past like right. I liked Ender's Game. I know that's more like young adult kids. But like I thought that's like creative and exciting read. Honestly. I know I've read others but like.
I don't know. What's like your favorite sci-fi. Well. Wow. Well, you see that's just it I think. My favorite sci-fi are like all the dystopian books. Okay, I mean that because that's science fiction to like Fahrenheit 451 Brave New World. Yeah I mean because it's taking science and more. It's more of a societal look on science fiction.
Yeah. I see syfy's more space stuff, right and I think but I think science fiction if you just look at what that means. It's just taking you know, What the human capacity for science, maybe and exploring that what it could be in the future. Yeah, it's kind of broad and I know but it has the very strong space connotations and I think that that is only natural.
But but what about. Forget about books though Tim. What about movies and or TV shows that you just don't even really grab watch those. It just reminded me of annihilation that we saw not too long ago. Yeah. No, I I'm not trying to like hate on either one because I know we kind of made fun of the movie.
Yeah some extent but the part I did like about the movie is that it was like Natalie Portman and these like three other women going into this unknown thing and trying to find out more about this alien presence. Which had in that regard I found the parallels and I like that aspect of it right?
You're right. And and that's a good point is there were parallels there especially because in Annihilation, well the book because they didn't really talk about the pit in the movie but the book there's a big pit that she goes down and she gets infected in the pit or whatever but it's similar. It's cylindrical, you know tunnel going down and the cylindrical Rama as well as parallels there.
Yeah, I guess but yeah, but yeah, but yeah, do you even have you ever seen Star Wars? I don't even yeah, okay, but like you're not I like it. Okay, that's fine. I don't know. Yeah, that's a raving review from him Star Wars little. Okay, so I mean because I've read this book in like a week because I was just.
The chapters are short. I was compelled with you know, what were what were we going to learn about Rama next? Like I felt like we were along with the exploration team. Yeah. It's exciting that he kind of kept you on edge in that regard. But like at the same time, there's not a big payoff. It's not like I didn't feel like this followed a good Arc with a satisfying conclusion.
You're right. We didn't even really say How It Ends right? We I just that's the the what hooked me was Rama. His explanation about this giant flying cylinder. So I guess we still haven't finished our debate is Rama a planet or a spacecraft. What do you say to Tim? I don't there's no answer in the book.
Yeah. I say it's a spacecraft because like essentially what happens is Rama comes through our solar system. All the humans are freaking out because we're afraid that this is going to, they're going to attack us. So the people from Mercury who I think he could he cleverly called him. Let her means because like Hermes Mercury were the same, you know Greek or Roman and so the Mercury Hermes on the Hermiens on Mercury fired a bomb or missile at the a trauma because they were afraid of of the ramens coming awake.
And because because we said all these little by biots are biological robots, they didn't really have intelligence. They just kind of performed routine tasks. And so all the humans were worried that romp the rama's inside we're going to suddenly awake and then we'd be all screwed wasn't it? Also that mercury like relied on the Sun a lot further industry.
And so yeah. This was a big part. It's like so.
This is what the justification was for launching the bomb is that they thought Rama the planet was going to like interfere with the orbit or block them their son of reception. You know, right? Yeah, I forgot about that. They thought that Rama was going to park itself in the solar system. Yeah and screw us all this.
Yeah from a nation's perspective that's like blocking off a resource or something. So they're like, that's the threat to our way of life type thing. Yeah, but ultimately what happens is. Rama gets so close to the Sun that that Commander Norton and his crew have to have to evacuate and I like that they were the ship's name was Endeavor and they talked about Captain James Cook and that link there I think it was cool. But basically Rama they think are they I think they were going to they weren't sure if they were going to park in the solar system, but then they thought well they were going to use the sun to kind of gain momentum and then leave the solar system, but it's acting Rama skirts the Sun and almost goes into like within the part of the sun to really get a slingshot and zooms out of our solar system. So basically Rama just comes we hitchhike on it a little bit explore inside then we then we get off when it's too close to the Sun and then it swings around the Sun and leaves the solar system.
And I think that this does I think this is it in a series I think so it's a series but I don't think he wrote it originally with that in town guy. Yeah. This is another thing I liked about the book was because I never really thought about this aspect of alien life. because the aspect I'm referring to that in this book is we see alien the existence of alien life.
It's within our solar system yet nothing happens, you know. Every other story we think or read about or scenario that we can hypothesize about life is like or at least for me I think about aliens intelligent life or if aliens out there. They're just not intelligent enough to travel to our solar system yet aliens are highly intelligent and just haven't gotten here yet or they're super intelligent and have observed us from afar and realize we’re bumbling idiots and are never going to come here, you know, like and then if you project that into all the science fiction movies and books and everything is like there's always some interaction between humans and Aliens when whenever we whenever we discover that they're really out there.
There's always some interaction. Here there was like no face-to-face interaction with the actual Ramans it was just all their little. You know robots. Those are those Ramans though. Like I don't think so. I think they because didn't they like dissect one and say like this is this is robotic but it has a molecular level to the base of the structure of How It's Made so they kind of feel like it was kind of designed by somebody else.
So yeah. So, you know, like that's one thing I never even thought about is like just and I think there's some quotes in here that I highlighted that that reflect that fact that that we just we see them but then they're gone before we can interact or learning more from them. Yeah along those lines I thought it was interesting to hear it that planetary committee people debating how they should handle the situation and I thought what Arthur C Clarke did a good job of was making it a realistic debate or discussion of what these people would say like their concerns their ideas about what could happen they talk about how like in the past if an alien civilization, you know, it hasn't happened before but when like Pizarro met the Indians or something, they're different like voyagers met other civilizations it usually didn’t end well, right right. So right there just saying this doesn't have a good president. Yeah precedent pressure in the past. so yeah, I thought that was interesting. Yeah. you think about the commander Norton? I like him. I mean like there was not much character development. No, but. What we learn about them is interesting and like I think one of the guy that leads the United planets or the chairman of that is like a hundred and fifteen years old and so like he also hypothesize about that about longer life expectancy.
And then Commander Norton has two wives. One on earth and one on Mars. So that's interesting Arthur C Clarke was trying to normalize polygamy. Yeah. Yeah, one thing I found interesting them to is two of his crewmates. On the Endeavour actually shared a wife so he did have it go both ways where but so yeah written in the 70s right after the 60s. Yeah, yeah free love and all that stuff. So yeah, maybe Arthur C Clarke was just a swinger is that sad? That is that the highlight of our episode is Arthur C Clarke was a swinger. That's my biggest take away. Yeah. Now the part was funny when it talked about him having two wires because it said he would send like a video message.
Uh, but he would keep a generic enough to like apply to both of them. It's really okay, honey. I'm doing good. Yeah, just keep it really um General. Yeah. Yeah, that was good. But as a commander he talks about always like putting his team first like protecting his team. So when people go off on like side expeditions, You know cares about them and stuff.
So he sounds like a good leader and a captain. So yeah, I thought so too. Oh and one of my I mean like I'm just I was just so fascinated by the concept of inside the cylinder because like because when they came through they're coming along the axis. And so when they came through the hatch they were looking out down a cylinder. But as they went along the curved plane, they eventually flattened out and so at one point somebody at that hatch had to like throw a can down to the captain and he just basically chucked it and it kind of like bounce bounce it and rolled like for a couple kilometers just down the gentle slope, you know until it finally reached camp and I found that but like from where his point of view was it was up and to the left.
But he tossed it sideways and it rolled, you know, it's just I can't even I can't even do it justice because it's just it's just yeah, you really got into this. I did I did I did and that just the idea of Rama. Yeah fascinated me. I guess I just had trouble with the lack of character development.
That you mentioned. I mean other than describing Rama. I don't think there's nothing else that really happens. Yeah, I will give you that. I mean. Not a book filled with action, but there I'm about like you never know what to expect though. That's the thing as I enjoyed. Yeah, cause you never know what discoveries they're going to make about Rama next.
I can appreciate that. I just wished he like fleshed out some of the characters more like when he talks about like James Cook the Explorer he talks about how Commander Captain Norton was really like into him and his story and that even though he was like one of these. Not Conquistador, but like, you know voyagers who maybe colonized places.
He wasn't like as evil as the typical one or something. So he's trying to like emulate him and just this General theme of Adventure and exploration. I like that aspect. Yeah. Yeah, definitely because we went to the moon 69, right? So this is like not long after that. It's right. Writer he's right.
Yeah the setting. Yeah, I never thought of that before but you're right like, you know, they would have still probably had Apollo missions when he was writing it. That would be way more advanced by now. Wouldn't you wouldn't you if space travel was was more like was possible for us. Would you go live on Mars if there is like no risk of the issue.
Well, yeah, like in this book they talk about like travel between Earth and Mars is like travel from here to Europe. You know, I think Mars is overrated. Really? Yeah, I know okay on the surface that's kind of a blunt stupid statement. But like we keep hearing about how people like Elon Musk are like obsessed with it, but he just read all these sci-fi books when he was a kid.
So I think he's just got this idea and said and he's like way smarter than me. So I'll trust that he knows what he's doing but like living on the moon I think is more realistic is what a lot of like scientists. And in general there's so much we can do on Earth still to make it better instead of trying to like make an atmosphere on Mars but it sounds hard as hell like to do.
So why not just like use all of your intelligence and resources but like do some right? Yeah. Yeah. Sure. You're one of those I was too hard. I don't know what I mean. Why would you go to Mars? It sucks out there. There's they probably need surveyors on Mars. Is this a sign to I'm a surveyor, so I don't know I mean.
I mean, it's not even close to the realm of possibility. So I don't even have to make that decision. You know, I think that's that's the thing. It's like, if something is completely out of the realm of possibility than you you would be more apt to say that you would do it right like given the chance Tim.
Would you climb Mount Everest? No, okay. I mean that's a bad example, you know, I mean like I don't know if you could head a movie studio would you do it? It sounds stressful. Yeah, I think it was like something something more within the realm of possibility than living on Mars, you know, I mean when you like yeah, like giving an option of something completely unknown unattainable.
I just can't tell if you when you offer me a hypothetical situation if I have to deal with all the negative things and I guess think about the fun aspect of right right, but no, I mean there are people who are born when the first planes took off. Yeah. He lived to see the, you know, go to Mars so.
Well Moon, you got yeah, sorry the moon. So yeah, there are things today that could seem unreasonable but still occur, right? Yeah, and then that's you bring up a good point that there are people that were born saw the first flight and then saw us land on the moon in their lifetime. So there's no wonder that they would expect us to have flying cars by now, you know and come on.
Where's our flying cars? Wouldn’t that be disastrous though? I mean some people can even drive on a two-dimensional Earth. Let alone flying around in the sky. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, we're I mean ya know it is interesting or like hoverboards. Hmm, I guess yeah. Yeah. Alright. Here's another question.
Do you believe in extraterrestrial life that there's something out there in the universe? There probably is okay. So you're just basically saying that from your statistical mines that the law of averages says there's got to be something else out there in the universe, right? Yeah. What do you think?
Oh I agree. Do you think do you think you don't believe in that UFOs? And yeah a UFO is an unidentified flying object. Yeah, I believe some final checks her own head. Okay. Are you asking me if I believe aliens have visited us? I don't know probably not. I agree with you there probably not.
Yeah, I just think it's pretty egotistical to think that aliens would go out of their way to come here and visit us, you know. Maybe they want our water. Or it's like in signs when they come here. You see the movie signs a long time ago, but they were like allergic to the water. Yeah, that's why I was so funny said it was like the biggest pothole and yeah, just cause I like him as planets like mostly water and water kills us and Night Shyamalan.
It's just a master of was that when he started to go downhill, I think that was wasn't my sixth sense. Yeah. But a nice kind of surgeon back isn't anyways, I haven't seen his new movies. I haven't either but here the good okay. Um, what did you think of the simps? Do you know just what I'm talking about there?
That was like the monkeys who had like human capabilities. Yeah, it's funny how we kind of mentioned it but didn't like elaborate that much. I know he did. He didn't it was it was a little weird like apparently they bred these monkeys and I think they bred them over time and cloned them to so they were sexless but they could perform remedial tasks to maintain the spaceship and they were strong.
Yes like that. Yeah. Yeah, but they couldn't handle being in the space suit so they could only be in the spaceship. Which I thought was odd. Yeah, I'm just I'm just going over things that just piqued my interest. Did you want to do quotes?
I can start with blend that and I liked how I mentioned earlier with the asteroid hitting Italy hmm after that. He says after the initial shock mankind reacted with the determination and a Unity that no earlier age could have shown. Which is just a simple sentence, but it's kind of a cool idea that it.
It takes one big thing to get everybody United but then once that happens for more together sort of right? Yes. I thought I I'm glad you brought that up because that was a that was an interesting plot Point as well as that like that was the Catalyst that kind of help them explore space more and set up the the space.
They didn't call it space force did they, space guard. Excuse me. Yeah, it was based guard. And then that eventually led to the United planets and all this stuff. So. yeah, do you think they're all right. How about this for a hypothetical question? Will there ever be a moment like that that can actually unify humans worldwide?
I don't see why not. I mean if there's like a meteorite asteroid or some climate change-related thing, I feel like. That could get people on the same page. Okay, it reminds me of okay the movie The Martian. Did you see the Martian? Okay. Well, he's all right. That's my fire. Yes. Yeah like that. Did you read the book or I didn't read the book.
I just looks pretty good. So good. Yeah, so. One part I liked is that he's stuck out there, you know on Mars and China like helps bring him back. They like offers their resources or whatever. So that's an example of just like International Unity based on this like existential issue. Yeah, I would view that as temporary though.
I don't think there will be I don't think there will be anything that will that will unify humans worldwide to the point where everyone will just band together. why are you so pessimistic? I'm a realist so cynical. Yeah, maybe I am a little more cynical this week, but well, I'm. If I could just read one more thing to build off of that.
No, he says a hundred years earlier a much poorer world with far fewer resources had squandered its wealth attempting to destroy weapons launched suicidally by mankind against itself. The effort had never been successful but the skills acquired then had not been forgotten. Now, they could be used for a far nobler purpose and on infinitely faster stage. No meteorite large enough to cause catastrophe would ever again be allowed to breach the defenses of Earth, so began project spaceguard.
yeah, that kind of sets the stage for yes. It does. Yes ran very well and he's a very anti-nuclear person. I think it's pretty clear. Yeah, and yeah written in Cold War times.
and here's here's a little example of how Arthur C Clarke can explain the world insane Rama much better than I can because the guys are descending the steps getting out to the plane and here this after storm and they hear this noise. They're like that's a familiar noise. And it was the sound of falling water.
So there was the origin of the sound they had heard descending from some hidden Source in the clouds three or four kilometers away was a waterfall and for long minutes they stared at it silently. Almost unable to believe their eyes. Logic told them that on this spinning world no falling object can move in a straight line, but there was something horribly unnatural about a curving waterfall that curved side ways to end many kilometers away from the point directly below its source.
I got another quote in there okay, here's another one. They're sailing on the cylindrical see they create a makeshift raft to go out and and see if they can if there's any place along the Steep Cliff to climb up on the other side, but the cylindrical sea runs, the whole circumference of the inside of Rama.
So there's no way around it, but. So they can look up and see the sea directly above them to. So, all right. Every time Norton said to himself, I feel that I've grown accustomed to Rama it produces some new Wonder as Resolution hummed steadily forward it seemed again and again that they were caught in the trough of a gigantic wave.A wave that curved up on either side until it became vertical then overhung until the two flanks met in a liquid Arch 16 kilometers above their heads. Despite everything that reason and logic told them, none of the voyagers could for long throw off the impression that at any minute those millions of tons of water would come crashing down from the sky.
That's pretty cool. Yeah, so like I mean things like that that help that just. Arthur C. Clarke helps me anyway visualize the world so so complete and I guess that's the thing is like sure there's not much character development or action or that nothing really it's a tease nothing really happens from Rama but like he goes into good detail.
That's so visual for me like sometimes books can try to explain things and I'm reading them and it sounds nice but I don't see it in my head. You know, I but for this one I could see it so clearly like I was there on the raft looking up and seeing this huge ring of water that I'm on and just being completely baffled about the physics behind it all so yes. Yeah, he does a good job of describing it but he doesn't fall into the Trap of like over explaining things like some authors. He leaves enough room for like the mystery of it to be interesting. I felt like he had some good passages as well. Like just like short ones like this is where I think Johnny pack or something was his name one of the crew members flies a little like flying bicycle down the radius. Or down the axis of Rama to get to the South End he flies over the cylindrical sea and many tries to fly back, but then he's crashing but as he does, so he actually he felt little fear and this surprised him for he had never thought of himself as a particularly Brave man. It was almost as if he were watching the struggles of a complete stranger and was not himself personally involved.
I feel like. in times of Crisis sometimes people. Act in ways that surprised even themself because it's kind of like an outer body experience or something yeah, like that guy that character was an Olympic Athlete or something? Yeah. Thanks. Olympics are saying yeah the lunar Olympics. Oh, is that what it was? Yeah, that's right. They sent him out on a little Expedition. That was cool.
Okay. I like this quote about Captain Norton. He says Norton had once visited the ruins of an Aztec Temple and the feelings he had that experience now came echoing back to him Amplified a hundred times. Here was the same sense of awe and mystery and the sadness of the irrevocably vanished pass, yet the scale here was so much greater both in time and in space that the mind was unable to do it justice after a while it ceased to respond. Norton wondered if sooner or later he would take even Rama for granted.
I thought that was boring now. Yeah for being a scientist guy. I think Arthur see Clark's pretty good writer, too.
Yeah, you get this sense that he just likes the idea of Adventure to and like these past Travelers and oh, yeah I always liked the in history learning about the Explorers Columbus Vasco de Gama Magellan all those guys did I mean maybe that did you have interest in that?
It's go. Yeah. I was really interested in. Yeah. I know a lot of them turn out to be really terrible people. But like that's the whole thing about history. You hold him to today's standards and everyone's a terrible person before 1900, right? That's why he mentioned James Cook though. I think is that.
As far as those guys go he was in his Terror. Yes. He was more fair to his crew and to the natives he met and and all that stuff. Yeah, so true.
this was a little something I thought was funny the commander gets a message like a message comes in someone, you know prints it out and gives it to him and then. Slowly and thoughtfully, he walked across to the improvised life support complex and dropped the message into an electrosn the brilliant flare of laser light bursting out through the crack beneath the seat cover told him that the demands of security were satisfied. It was too bad, he told himself, that all problems could not be disposed of so swiftly and hygienically.
Because he's talking about a toilet. Yeah, either it in the toilet and the electrosan like. Vaporize their waste it's like little things like that enjoy to yeah in general his tone was kind of like dry had some dry humor to it. he would throw in those little funny parts to break up the serious part.
Right and Commander Norton this is after Mercury launches a missile heading towards Rama and one of the commander Norton's crew members comes to him and says that they can have a plan to go out like go out into space do a little solo Mission and disarm the missile and so commander Norton's weighing the options of does he make this does he do this and be a saboteur and disarm the missile and upset potentially the whole United planets at the same time saving Rama or does he just ditch Rama Let It Be exploded and see what happens but this was the passage: to act or not act, that was the question. Never before had Norton felt such a close kinship with the prince of Denmark. Whatever he did the possibilities for good or evil seemed in Perfect Balance. He was faced with the most morally difficult of all decisions. If his choice was wrong he would know very quickly, but if he was right, he may never be able to prove it.
And so that made me think of like. not just history, but even. Personal lives like I've had this thought many times. It's like we never really know we rarely know when we're close to disaster, you know, like if oh dang, you know, we're driving along and we don't catch that yellow light we stop and it's red or like oh darn, but what if we if we made the yellow light maybe at the next intersection, we would have gotten hit and then an accident, you know, like things like that.
I mean that's that's just a random act but like sometimes when you have to make a tough decision and you can't make up your mind, there's no way to really know sometimes that you made the right or wrong decision in life. And that can be frustrating but it's part of life. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I like that he had some like morality issues here and there like heavy decisions like that, right? This is the guy defusing the bomb. This is Norton weighing the options of should he play order him to follow through with his plan to disarm the bomb or should he call him back and say no you don't do it since a big kind of just say I'm in that context, right?
It's like upset Mercury and Disturbed the world order or because Mercury just by destroying it. It's like you could upset the civilization that may be back home or it's like in general the worry was that they're going to destroy this knowledge and you know past civilizations.
oh, yeah, so speaking of the people on Mercury he says. They were respected for their toughness and Engineering skills and admired for the way in which they had conquered so fearsome a world, but they were not liked and still less where they completely trusted. At the same time it was possible to appreciate their point of view. The Hermians it was often jokes, sometimes behaved as if the sun were their personal property. They were bound to it in Intimate love-hate relationship as the Vikings had once been linked to the Sea. The Nepalese to the Himalayas The eskimos to the tundra. They would be most unhappy if something came between them and the natural force that dominated and controlled their lives.
So yeah, that made me feel like this is this like space politics thing where they were so dependent on the Sun that they were going to Nuke. This uninhabited space world to not have it risk interfering, right? Yeah. That's what that was. Well done. Well
alright, so this is the towards the end when Arthur C Clarke is describing how Rama is approaching the sun rounding the sun like almost dipping into the Sun a little bit dude, slingshot itself out of the solar system.
Faster and faster Rama was swept around the Sun moving more swiftly than any object that had ever traveled through the solar system in less than 2 hours its direction of motion had swung through more than 90 degrees. And it had given a final almost contemptuous proof of its total lack of interest in all the world's whose peace of mind it had so rudely disturbed.
Like I didn't give a shit about the rest of the solar system like just gone so that's why I view it as a spaceship because I view the ramens programming this path picking our son out. As a good slingshot point to get to some other Final Destination and I don't mean those shitty like 90 movies if yeah, yeah.
maybe I guess it explains like the biots they weren't really interested in the people, right? They would just kind of like pick apart their equipment or try to. See what everything was but they didn't care that much about the individuals. So. I've got one more quote.
I could give I think this kind of summarizes my favorite aspects of it. So he says I think this is the Olympic Athlete guy who was on the sky bike and kind of went on this little sub Adventure, right? Because it was a dangerous. It was kind of side missions. so he crashed before he said your quote he crashed on the south side of the Rama and he came to the cliff and they had him jump off the cliff that was like 50 kilometers high and then land in the water because they calculated the terminal velocity.
He would reach is it would be a little less than on Earth because Rama had a lower gravity. So it wouldn’t kill him if like held his shirt above his head like a almost like a parachute to increase the drag and that's pretty cool. Yeah part that be cool to see in a movie. Yeah. I was looking on YouTube of like four clips about this and it's like Morgan Freeman producing a movie about rendezvous with Rama.
Yeah. This is like four years ago. So I think it's just. Production hell or it's not going to happen. Yeah, it'd be hard. It'd be I think it would be hard. I mean because they would they would if they had made a movie they would have to do something more to keep the story interested because there's no way like like you said there's not really a payoff.
I don't think they can make a movie that just doesn't have a payoff, you know, right like even Interstellar has kind of an open ending like with the the future of humanity and all that stuff, but it's ultimately about Matthew McConaughey's character and his daughter you have you seen Interstellar? I've seen it yeah, they probably have to add some stuff to it to make it more acceptable to audiences make it more satisfying but it's a little refreshing to read a book that doesn't follow a formula because so many books are very really predictable.
So the fact that it doesn't have a payoff is frustrating but it's kind of like you respect that it's different. Oh, I I totally liked it. I was not particularly frustrated with the way it ended I felt. I felt it was kind of refreshing because it was like I said a concept I never thought about before that aliens would just do a flyby and we'd see them but aliens don't care because they're off to bigger things.
Yeah. I'm sorry to interrupt or no, it's all good. So he says. Yet if there were no hazards there would be no achievement. No sense of adventure. Millions of men would gladly have traded places with him. Now. He was going not only were no one had ever been before but also where no one would ever go again. In all of history, he would be the only human being to visit the southern regions of Rama whenever he felt fear brushing against his mind he could remember that.
Yeah. That is good one. Yeah, and it's going would you like to say that you've been somewhere and no one else has ever been. Is that possible now? That's it?
I don't think it is any more right unless like you get technical and like because there's volcanoes in the Pacific. So like if they reach above the sea level then it's technically an island so you can just go there and be like, hey, I'm on an island. So I've done it I've yeah, yeah. Yeah.
I mean if you've gone to some like obscure cave or like. You know natural location, even though you're not the first person it's still it's a cool feeling to think like not a lot of people have been here, right? So right, you know, I'm getting kind of feeling did you ever read Robinson Crusoe?
I don't think so. Okay. I remember reading that. I was younger and really loving it too because that time he was deserted on a Caribbean island in the Caribbean I think and. Yeah, and so he thinks he's alone, but maybe he's not he's not. Well, we'll see. But anyway back to this book. Yeah, this is my last quote.
I liked it because it's at the end and it's Commander Norton. He had succeeded on this Mission beyond all reasonable expectation. What his men had discovered in Rama would keep scientists busy for decades. And above all he had done it without a single casualty, but he had also failed. One might speculate endlessly but the nature and the purpose of the Ramans was still utterly unknown. They had used the solar system as a refueling stop, a booster station, call it what you will and had been spurned it completely on their way to more important business. They would probably never even know that the human race existed. Such monumental indifference was worse than any deliberate insult.
That's a good. Yeah, I like that one because I mean that's. I guess. I've always had this Cosmic perspective not always but I have a cosmic perspective of I guess just where humans are in the universe because. This stems probably from my religious background me going to church every Sunday growing up Mennonite rather conservative, shielded, kind of out of touch with I guess mainstream culture and Society a little bit.
So as an adult, I you know had to re-examine things as I grew up and don't really know what's out there or what's beyond this universe. I believe in a higher power, but I feel like humans are limited in our capacity to try to process what God could be. So we have kind of developed what suits what makes sense for us humans to rationalize and think about it.
So I have always wondered about. not just other life in this universe, but beyond the universe what is out there? I do believe there is something bigger than humans, but I can't say that we have all the answers. And so to think about aliens not even you know dignifying us with an insult. Like he says just sheer indifference makes me think about the human place in the universe and Beyond and is. is I think. An interesting thought like it thought exercise for me. I think you know, it would benefit most people to think a little more about, bigger, on have a bigger broader perspective of human beings than just, I know I know it's hard, you know, you have to go to go to work you guys make make some money to provide for you and your family and whatnot.
I always think there's time to contemplate bigger things. Maybe that's why I like science fiction.
Most people aren't as enlightened as you Brian. They don't all of this Cosmic perspective. Hi. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. I know. No, but as another enlightened person, I think you're right now, I think that's a great quote.
Wrap things up because it's a very humbling thought that the aliens are just passing through like don't even take us seriously enough to because we like as a people as stemming out from the individual family culture civilization everything we see ourselves as the center of like the universe and just to think that there's so much more out there that.
We're not even on their radar of like these other beans that's it is very humbling feeling. So yeah.
Yeah, so we shouldn't get caught up in all this like, you know, BS and right I guess that's what I'm getting at your yes. Thank you, Tim for for helping me find a direction because yes this it I don't mean people should like wallow and say, you know humans are to the suspect on a on a blue planet in the middle of those gigantic Universe, you know, no. I think that all human all Humanity has a common Destiny in the universe like what happens on Earth affects every one of us. So while you may be having a shitty day because your boss is hard on you or You you have to go to the doctors or or some other inconvenience, just I hope people can realize that in the grand scheme of the things it does really matter. I’m about to be a fatalist, just don't sweat this I guess that's the thing is I'll leave you with this. Don't sweat the small stuff, enjoy being around the people you like and people you love and big kind All Humans because we're on it together.
It's good advice. Yeah. All right. I started to Rapture wrap it up to him. Yeah. What's your rating? Oh right rating. I give it a five man. I loved it. I loved it. Yeah, I know. I mean I thought about a 4 because like, should I reserve my five-star ratings for book I like that are my all-time favorites like Brave New World and Catch-22 in those.
I don't think I can because like a star a book I book I should be able to write a 5 Rigby rate of five star and not have it on my like top 10 list, you know, because then that's going to limit my five stars, but you know what for how how much I read it how fast I read it. I was constantly hooked.
Go into chapter to chapter. I can visualize the inside of Rama so well in my head thanks to Arthur C Clarke subscriptions that yeah 5 out of 5, you're going to give it like a three or two. No, no, you give it to I'll give it I give it a 3. Yeah, I think yeah, like I can appreciate it more having discussed it with you and I like how much you you took away from it, but just.
As someone who appreciates more story arcs and character development. I felt like those were just too lacking for me. Right and I think that's a totally valid critique of this book. Yes, but I also think that what you said first is that you listening to me helped you appreciate the book more. I'm I kind of like that about our podcast here is that we we discuss it and it helps shape our views of the book because like you and that's all point is to read books and talk to talk about them to other people and yeah, so because one person's perspective is not always enough. Yeah. Yeah, so go to our website to guys one book and let us know what you think guys one book.com. Next book is to the lighthouse by Virginia Woolf.
Yes, I haven't started reading it yet. I think you have I have but this is this is one of your pics it's one that I chose. So it will be a good one this time just kidding. I'm just kidding. I like this book. I would I would recommend rendezvous with Rama you would like. I just don't read sci-fi that it's really just my personal.
Okay note to self never pick sci-fi again. Yeah, or if you want to make me angry, don't let me get angry. If I want to make you angry I’ll make it read another Malcolm Gladwell book. Yeah what it is like a Sci-Fi Malcolm Gladwell. Probably the worst just all right. Oh, yeah, Virginia Woolf. Yes, very nice. Yeah. I think it's like ranked like in the top 20 of all novel.
Yes very well regarded. Yeah. Yeah should be good looking forward to it. Yeah. Until next time keep reading keep reading keep reading. Is that how we're good?